Monrian Sweat Program..more people buying for the program

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Zarnia Foxtrot, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Zarnia Foxtrot

    Zarnia Foxtrot Well-Known Member Volunteer Mentor

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    Hello. Everyone knows of Gatekeeper and Rosa as the contact people to buy sweat from for the Monrian Sweat Program. However, there is a lot more people interested in selling sweat but only two people buying it. Since Gatekeeper and Rosa probably want some time to actually do other things in game and have a RL too outside of the game, they are not always available for the increasing number of sellers on Monria. Could more people be added to the program to purchase sweat from people on Monria?
     
  2. DarkMoonEnigma

    DarkMoonEnigma Connecting Moon Dots Staff Member Moderator Community Manager Monria Media Team MCAT Team Member

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    Sorry Zarnia, not sure how this thread got missed, but I'll respond now and tell you that we have actually had several discussion regarding our sweat buying program, and we're trying to come up with the best possible scenario so that we can take care of our Monrian Born, but also extend a percentage of our sweat buying program budget to non-Monrian Born.

    It's a challenge at best to find dedicated community members who can be available during various time-zones because of their other commitments. We have a couple of ideas on the table, but we haven't reached a workable solution as yet.

    Gatekeeper is having computer issues, and Rosa and Raine have some real life business to attend to, so they won't be available in the immediate future. We will do our best to get this program working properly again, but we have to adhere to a specific set of guidelines to make it fair.

    We'll continue to address this, and hopefully, we'll be able to sort it out sooner than later. :)
     
  3. Zarnia Foxtrot

    Zarnia Foxtrot Well-Known Member Volunteer Mentor

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    Hello again. My last post was back in Feb. so I thought it would be a good time to post a followup. I know that GK and Rosa/Raine haven't been in game as much as in the past which probably means RL has their time and attention.You had mentioned some ideas were being considered. I am tossing this one out there but I half expect I know the answer beforehand. Since having people available in all time zones is part of the problem, could MA manufacture a "sweat purchase machine" somewhere on Monria for sellers of sweat both Monrian and non-Monrian born?..Maybe its me or my questions, but most ideas I have brought up (which I do think are very good ideas..:) )MA wouldn't do because of the work involved for them. Since I have been very good at finding the things they won't/dont do, my perspective may be a little biased here but what exactly does MA do in work to improve Monria?..It just seems they are good at saying "No" and "We don't do...." and tell the owner that he can't do it either. Progress in any area can't happen on groundwork based on this kind of attitude or approach. So, could you fill in the blanks and hopefully if there is an answer to getting the Monrian Sweat Program back in full swing again?

    Thanks.
     
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  4. Kendra

    Kendra Moon Marketer and Virtual shopper Staff Member Moderator Official Moon Shopper Monria Media Team

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    Hey Zarnia :)

    Sadly we are still in a quandary regarding the sweat buying program :(

    Because the Sweat has no real value bar what players put on it I don't think we can do an NPC to buy it.

    As far as I know we can only do it through our own player participation and unfortunately that can go askew sometimes as you can see.

    I have been hanging around cave 3 on occasion to buy sweat from some of the players there over the last 2 weeks but I completely understand that that is not an ongoing option.

    Because we have been paying over the normal buy-price to give our newborns a bit of a lift, I think it can only be done on a casual basis, until we can come up with a more reliable solution.

    I understand completely that this is very frustrating for everybody involved, particularly as people become dependent on the few PED that they earn off selling their sweat.

    And believe me, we are wracking our brains as to a solution that will suit everybody on this one. MA, Our team, The new players, and the community as a whole.

    I know you are always really good at coming up with ideas and ways to help our community, so please don't let this particular situation stop you, we really do love to hear of ways that we can improve things on the moon, and you are fantastic the way you get involved and try to come up with cool ways to make things better. So please keep being inventive and we will try too. :)

    Thanks a mill
    Kendra ;)
     
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  5. Zarnia Foxtrot

    Zarnia Foxtrot Well-Known Member Volunteer Mentor

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    Hi Kendra. Thanks for the insights and imput. If it were to go in the direction of a NPC, it would obviously need to be completely different from the usual EU setup and Monria-based only ( as part the Monrian economy, not EU economy which I know would probably be both harder and easier at the same time..lol). The current (?) sweat program was based a budgeted amount from GK and Ant (if I got it right) so that is why I mentioned the point of Monrian based economy. You have to admit, if we did have a NPC type setup for sweat, Monria would get alot more visiting traffic from other players wanting to sell sweat that couldn't do it elsewhere. There would probably have to be a restriction that the sweat be acquired on Monria to be bought on Monria from both Monrians and non-Monrians alike. But this is all my conjecture here. I hope the sweat program or its next stage of development works itself out soon. You are right..the little extra ped from sweat does help at the more difficult times of in game ped...:)
     
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  6. Sith Meister

    Sith Meister Shop Owner Shop Owner MCAT Team Member

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    Hi I do not mind putting my name forward to buy the sweat on an agreed amount per/k. I could put some PED aside on Monria for this service to help out while you get a set up sorted.

    Maybe we can come up with an arrangement for the service with something like adding me to the free travel service rather than a paying customer. I wouldn't need it much as I have my own ship, but maybe longer trips like to RT in the future may be something I may want to look at.

    Maybe a shop may be available to put the sweat into for other players to buy to help out at, don't know how this would work as I am at work and not really thought it through.

    Cheers

    Sith
     
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  7. SuperFly

    SuperFly Active Member

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    The best solution, in my opinion - is a daily quest to collect sweat (2k bottles w/o Monria shirt and maybe 3-4k with Monria shirt). Reward for the quest - universal ammo, that can not be sold (1k bottles = 2PED ammo). So we get rid of the twins that way.
     
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  8. mastermesh

    mastermesh Member

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    interesting idea, but then it'd crush the market, and force the price to stay around there... in the past the price was higher, quite a bit higher... 5 peds or so when I started per k... I'm told it was 3-4 above that even further back... If they do an automated npc it should give out a lower amount than what the market is currently calling for so that all the sweat, which is craftable, usable in tp chips, etc. doesn't all go to the npc... Maybe make it do 1 ped per k so that it is an option, but it's a low-ball option.
     
  9. Darth Revan Reborn

    Darth Revan Reborn Active Member

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    For one it wouldn't crush the market...it would raise the price of sweat as currently you can go to caly and buy sweat for 1.25ped/k .... if it was 2 ped/k on Monria it would keep the price at that for a minimum.

    However, all that will do is bring a ton of people to Monria to offload their sweat and then they would leave again. Sure some would stay around but majority would not. It would then end up costing Ant a ton of peds to keep it going...essentially it would be a losing proposition for him despite the extra people coming here.
    If you restrict it to just Monrian Born, then a ton of alts would be creating by non-Monrians so that they could then trade and sell the sweat.

    Ant's idea for having people buying sweat to help out the newer players is great, however it only works if there are not a lot of transactions or if it is restricted to a certain amount. Remember that some people will never do more than sweat, sell it and do a small hunt and repeat. I think the majority of people who sweat as a way to earn ped to do activities don't realise that they are essentially relying on other peoples generosity to continue their gaming, and in an RCE...it is people pretty much giving money away. Think to yourself, what would you use the sweat for instead of selling it? Then figure out the cost of that and compare it. Then work out how much the sweat is actually worth to break even using it? Then take off around 10% (for profit) and that should be around what the sweat is actually worth. You will either quickly find out the true value of sweat...or you will then know what to do with the sweat instead of selling it.

    What needs to be figured out is a way to actually use the sweat. There are a few BP's out there that use sweat, however majority of them are not worth it due to the price of sweat. Some BP's that i like to craft require between 2000-5000 sweat per click so occasionally if i feel like doing a run i will buy some. However at a cost of 2ped/k....it is a guaranteed loss. Even 1ped/k is pushing to break even on them with MU.

    So instead of coming up with an NPC who buys sweat for ped/uni ammo (that can easily be turned into ped), we need to start thinking of other ideas that wont cost Ant a ton of money on a continuing basis. Otherwise, all these awesome events they do will start to go away due to lack of funds.

    Maybe something like an NPC who trades sweat for skills? 1000 sweat gets you 0.01pec of skills (skill choices would be down to MA to decide but maybe a few that would be good across a majority of skill sets)?
    Or how about a special instance that requires sweat to get into? Could be that a key needs to be crafted using only sweat? or a combination sweat plus some of the less used materials such as shoggoth skin or yog skin, etc.
    You would still need to shoot and use ammo/decay in the instance but it could have a chance of a special loot table or something...

    These are just ideas but hopefully you get the point I'm trying to convey.
     
  10. mastermesh

    mastermesh Member

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    to add to the ideas... This is Monria... since sweat can be used in blueprints... well, there's a lot of story driven possibility there... add in the daily crafting mission... and well... even better...

    Perhaps create some cave instances that require sweat and monria specific loot to create a key for...

    Perhaps sweat can be used in a bp that will create a 'flood light helmet' that will help you light up the areas in caves directly in front of your avatar, etc.

    Heck, even go the route of some other planets... Demonic inspired vehicles.... which require sweaty blueprints.
     
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  11. Zarnia Foxtrot

    Zarnia Foxtrot Well-Known Member Volunteer Mentor

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    Well, sweat can be useful in crafting for both portable TT's and portable repair units. But the whole point originally is that the sweat program provided ped for players who were new or couldn't invest much in the game. If it went in the direction of sweat>skills, you would still need ped which takes it back to the beginning again...sweat for ped. It ends up being something of a circular argument but maybe there is a possibility of both sweat for skills and for ped somehow. Most people wont invest a lot in the beginning of their time in this game. They want to see how it works and find their niche first. The idea of regular spending of real money is usually after they have been in a while and they know where they want to go and how much they can budget into the game. So, in the beginning, they only need a little ped. For me personally, I'm still determining what my budget amount will be regularly and this is after a year in the game..lol. And there are times when my ped runs low especially a couple of days after an event. So there is a real need for sweat for ped for both new and older players.

    This thread seems to have become a brainstormer to make sweat useful and profitable. What other ideas are out there? Feel free to post them...:)
     
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  12. Darth Revan Reborn

    Darth Revan Reborn Active Member

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    I quite agree on that there are BP's that use sweat...the problem is that majority of those BP's are not going to make any profit...which is what you generally try to do in this game with anything. If you dont make profit (or break even) then it is still a losing proposition.

    I like crafting the portable tt and repair units myself, i use them as well as sell them in my shop an occasionally on Caly as well. If you have never crafted these before, let me break down the cost for this.

    Portable TT Unit:
    TT value cost per click on this BP is 4.07ped.
    Ingredients per click: Ignisium Ingot (1), Cumbriz Ingot (3), Garen Lubricant (3), Sweat (2K)

    Highest return in materials I have seen on a near success is 4.06ped.
    Lowest success I have seen is 4.09ped.
    Generally you can expect a return of:
    5% in Success resulting in 3.5x multiplier
    30% in success close to input
    50% return in near success close to the tt input
    10% at near success under 1 ped return
    5% fails.

    This is not all the time but an average and sometimes you are lucky and swirl.
    So over 100 clicks, we can expect:
    5% success @ 3.5x (14.32), 30 success @ 4.09, 50 near success @ 4.07, 10 near success @ 1, 10 fails return 0.
    Cost in tt value of 100 clicks is 407 ped.
    Return is 5 units @3.5x (71.58), 30 units (122.70) and mats from near success (213).
    Total average return is 407.28 ped on average (unless you are lucky and global).
    So already we are expecting to only just break even at tt value.

    Lets add in MU:
    Ignisium - 130% (100 units = 273ped)
    Cumbriz - 110% (300 units = 148.50ped)
    Garcen Lubricant - 102% (300 units = 61.2ped)
    Total Cost without Sweat = 482.70 ped

    At MU we are expecting a loss of around 75.42ped.
    Note some of this will be mitigated if you sell the left over mats....me i always re-use mats for other crafting adventures.

    Now you would also use Metal Residue to bump up the TT units to full value so that when you sell you get max amount.
    Each unit is 20ped at full tt, so 15.91 metal residue required per unit on average @ normal success and 5.68 required for the multiplier success.
    505.70 metal residue for 35 units @ 101% = 5.06 mu paid.
    So loss is now around 80.48ped (75.42 + 5.06)

    The unit generally sells for 150% mu...so once we have sold them all (this wont be over night but over a month), we would have made 10 ped per unit = 350 ped mu profit.

    350 - 80.48 = 269.52 profit.
    2K sweat per click = 200K sweat @ 2ped/k = 400 ped cost.
    Profit = -130.48 ped.

    200K sweat @ 1.25p/k = 250 ped cost
    Profit = 19.52 ped.

    As you can see, even buying sweat at Caly prices, we are only just over breaking even (totally forgot auction house fees as well)

    I am not trying to say that they shouldn't buy sweat, etc, I am trying to point out that we need to come up with a better way to use it to make the 2ped worth while, instead of a charity.

    What you have put here is important as well. Yes providing new players with PED so that it will help them figure out what to do is a necessity, however i don't think it should be an ongoing thing for that player....most people either quit in their first few months or realize that you do need to deposit to continue gaming if you do not have a lot of free time to game. I personally made my first deposit after 1 month in the game and have never looked back. If my actions cause me to need to constantly deposit then that is on me. Education is what is needed more than PED. The right info and guidance is more important than handing out free money. You can give someone money over and over and they will do the same things and continue to be broke. If you teach them how to use it effectively, then not much is needed in the beginning. The idea behind the MNAT was fantastic but it is a shame to see that it too has kind of fallen into a slumber.

    I hope i have not offended anyone in any of these replies, this is purely for education and to help others see why the idea behind providing ped for sweat when the price of sweat is overvalued is not a sustainable and is extremely complicated.
     
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  13. DarkMoonEnigma

    DarkMoonEnigma Connecting Moon Dots Staff Member Moderator Community Manager Monria Media Team MCAT Team Member

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    Perhaps we could add more MNAT Tutorials in the form of information to help guide players. The issue we had with first having the MNAT Training Class was someone, or a couple of people being consistently available to teach or run classes. We need people with knowledge of certain topics or subject matter to be able to teach, but because of time zones and lack of time commitment, it just wasn't working, which is why we went the tutorial route.

    If someone wants to submit contents for a specific topic, I would be happy to convert it into our tutorial format and publish it at the forum in the MNAT section. Let me know if anyone is interested in doing this.

    This discussion is appreciated, and I'm sure Ant is keeping his eye on it. Kendra and I try to get into the game to catch new Monrian Born to give out the starter kits, but also to purchase sweat according to our rules for such, but it's difficult for us to always get into the game at a specific time due to outside work. I'm always involved in behind the scenes work, so it's a challenge to set a certain time to be in the game.

    The people we had doing this aren't available right now, which makes it an unfortunate thing, so we have to go back to the drawing board and see if we can come up with something that is fair and workable.

    Please continue the discussion. :)
     
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  14. Darth Revan Reborn

    Darth Revan Reborn Active Member

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  15. Zarnia Foxtrot

    Zarnia Foxtrot Well-Known Member Volunteer Mentor

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    Hi Darth..no offense taken here. I think both points are very valid. The Sweat Corner in your shop I think a stable place to offer the sweat for sale and you won't have to constantly be running to the next player to p/u their sweat for sale. I wondered sometimes if GK and Rosa had any real game time with the demands I could picture of ppl wanting to sell to them..LOL Also, I am a detail person but NOT in number so most of what you wrote above went right over my head. My husband in RL and in game is the "accountant" thinker so he would get it and maybe this is why I keep falling short in my goals in expectations with the ped I invest in game so if the there could be courses to explain "the numbers" in your above post, I know it would help me. I'm still digesting what Pinthas gave me in advice as to how to calculate the costs involved with knowing you had a profitable mining run. I didn't get much of the Monrian courses when I first joined EU/Monria because I really didn't know about them. I simply followed my husband's advice who is a native Calyian (?) and he got me with his mentor so the starter pack and information a normal beginning Monrian gets I missed or got differently off planet. So, hopefully the courses could help me and others use their ped more effectively with education first taught to them. And off to the next person to comment or add info....
     
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  16. Kendra

    Kendra Moon Marketer and Virtual shopper Staff Member Moderator Official Moon Shopper Monria Media Team

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    I agree with this it si so hard to look after this programme when it eats into peoples game time :/

    Darth I love you sweat corner I hope the more experienced players in game do support this program it is fantastic and very helpful to our newborns :)
    I have bought your supply today ;)

    you guys are great :)
     
  17. Darth Revan Reborn

    Darth Revan Reborn Active Member

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    Thanks Kendra for your support and helping out the newborns, it is much appreciated!
     
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  18. DarkMoonEnigma

    DarkMoonEnigma Connecting Moon Dots Staff Member Moderator Community Manager Monria Media Team MCAT Team Member

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    I will also support this effort Darth ... I've been down a few days with severe lower back pain, so out of commission and not in the game at all, but it's getting better and I should be in the game soon. I will definitely check it out. :)
     
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  19. jessa dara

    jessa dara New Member

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    what is the full name for rosa and gatekeeper to sell sweat
     
  20. DarkMoonEnigma

    DarkMoonEnigma Connecting Moon Dots Staff Member Moderator Community Manager Monria Media Team MCAT Team Member

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    Gatekeeper and Rosa are not actively in the game at this time, and I am the only one who buys sweat, but from our Monrian Born players only. Also, Darth sold his shop recently, so he is no longer offering his sweat program either.
     

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